Taxes

[Bsouth 68]

-Taxes to trading post

I think taxes would be a great addition to the trading post. I think we all have noticed the influence bags have had on the market: prices have risen a lot, and items that were 10b could be 100b today. My suggestion is that we make an attempt and add a 2,5% tax system to each sold item from the trading post. I know some of you are against fees like this, but keep in mind, 2,5% tax per item sold is only 2,5b per 100b.

 

-Taxes at duel/gamble zone

Duel/gamble zone are the places where our ecos become eco and where most items are changing path. Therefore it would be great to add a tax system here as well, to remove more bags from the market. The major problem with a tax system at gamble/duel zone would be: how are we going to take tax for items that are gambled/staked? As you can tell, it’s impossible, and the fact that items never stay on the same price is not really helping.

My suggestion is to not take fees per item gambled/staked and instead take fees per fp/stake. Example, you pay 10b to gamble/stake 100 times and when that limit is reached, you have to put in 10b again and so on. 

The positive side effect to this is that addicted gamblers/stakers wouldn't be able to risk their items as long they’re out of cash. 

(A fun addition to this would be a well that kept track of the amount of bags that have been removed)

 

Lmk what you think and let’s discuss this subject

 

Kind regards

Bsouth

[IGN 39]

+1 suggested this for a while.

[spooky hex 2]

i like that idear tbh, get some cash out the game

[Super Unicum 16]

- to the trading post idea

+ to gamble idea

[metal justin 36]

Huge +1 for both ideas.

I know a lot of players will probally oppose this because "imagine losing some money on that profit", but in a scenario like this I think it's way more important to consider the games health over the players opinion. 

No one can possibly argue the state of the economy at the moment with prices gone through the roof. A money sink is desperately needed and this would undoubtedly take trillions out of the game in weeks.

With that being said I do believe that the TP tax could be lowered to 1% once things stabilize a bit more and a chunk of cash has left the game.

[Loviathan 6]

Just now, metal justin said:

Huge +1 for both ideas.

I know a lot of players will probally oppose this because "imagine losing some money on that profit", but in a scenario like this I think it's way more important to consider the games health over the players opinion. 

No one can possibly argue the state of the economy at the moment with prices gone through the roof. A money sink is desperately needed and this would undoubtedly take trillions out of the game in weeks.

With that being said I do believe that the TP tax could be lowered to 1% once things stabilize a bit more and a chunk of cash has left the game.

The way simply economics work is: You want to overcome the problem of inflation, this means that any rapid change could have very bad consequences for the economy. Since it's completely based on players demand & supply, touching up on this subject rapidly would not be ideal. Inflation is something you deal with slowly but surely, Although I don't support the idea of it existing in the trading post (will force people to use the trading function that exists ingame to bypass this tax, which also just makes it more difficult for the player) I feel the need to reply. 

[Loviathan 6]

16 minutes ago, Bsouth said:

-Taxes to trading post

I think taxes would be a great addition to the trading post. I think we all have noticed the influence bags have had on the market: prices have risen a lot, and items that were 10b could be 100b today. My suggestion is that we make an attempt and add a 2,5% tax system to each sold item from the trading post. I know some of you are against fees like this, but keep in mind, 2,5% tax per item sold is only 2,5b per 100b.

 

-Taxes at duel/gamble zone

Duel/gamble zone are the places where our ecos become eco and where most items are changing path. Therefore it would be great to add a tax system here as well, to remove more bags from the market. The major problem with a tax system at gamble/duel zone would be: how are we going to take tax for items that are gambled/staked? As you can tell, it’s impossible, and the fact that items never stay on the same price is not really helping.

My suggestion is to not take fees per item gambled/staked and instead take fees per fp/stake. Example, you pay 10b to gamble/stake 100 times and when that limit is reached, you have to put in 10b again and so on. 

The positive side effect to this is that addicted gamblers/stakers wouldn't be able to risk their items as long they’re out of cash. 

(A fun addition to this would be a well that kept track of the amount of bags that have been removed)

 

Lmk what you think and let’s discuss this subject

 

Kind regards

Bsouth

Fat -1 for the trading post taxes, don't punish those who have worked so long to figure out how to merch effectively. The fact that gamblers (who obtain most of the economy) are able to controll prices with the result of them going up or down in a day is enough reason to stop this.

+1 for taxes at duel/gamble, as known it takes literally no skill to press a couple of buttons to gamble. Considering the majority of the servers economy pass by gamble/duel this would be great dealing with the "servers economy". 

 

What has been the problem previously when creating "money sinks" is that no bags are ever lost out of the continous circle of the economy. Magic chest is a great example, sure you dump a bunch of items into the chest but the cash that you paid to get the items stays. That's the problem, there are too many item sinks and not any (that I can think of) coin/bags sinks.

[metal justin 36]

5 minutes ago, Loviathan said:

Fat -1 for the trading post taxes, don't punish those who have worked so long to figure out how to merch effectively. The fact that gamblers (who obtain most of the economy) are able to controll prices with the result of them going up or down in a day is enough reason to stop this.

+1 for taxes at duel/gamble, as known it takes literally no skill to press a couple of buttons to gamble. Considering the majority of the servers economy pass by gamble/duel this would be great dealing with the "servers economy". 

 

What has been the problem previously when creating "money sinks" is that no bags are ever lost out of the continous circle of the economy. Magic chest is a great example, sure you dump a bunch of items into the chest but the cash that you paid to get the items stays. That's the problem, there are too many item sinks and not any (that I can think of) coin/bags sinks.

i disagree with the whole punishing part. I have a strict mercher account and i know for a fact that 2.5% wont matter anyway. If i'm merching a 1t item i'd only lose 25b. Not too mention a system like this in place would just mean ppl would start selling items with a +2.5% margin anyway. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't sink cash anyway. And keeping in mind that if you're flipping 1t items you're probally talking about huge profit margins to which 25b would only be a smart portion anyway. And like I said in my last reply, it could be lowered to 1% or even lower once the economy settles some more and some cash has left the game.

[Loviathan 6]

Just now, metal justin said:

i disagree with the whole punishing part. I have a strict mercher account and i know for a fact that 2.5% wont matter anyway. If i'm merching a 1t item i'd only lose 25b. Not too mention a system like this in place would just mean ppl would start selling items with a +2.5% margin anyway. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't sink cash anyway. And keeping in mind that if you're flipping 1t items you're probally talking about huge profit margins to which 25b would only be a smart portion anyway. And like I said in my last reply, it could be lowered to 1% or even lower once the economy settles some more and some cash has left the game.

Then again, there's a trading function to dodge the whole taxing system for anyone selling expensive items (will most likely happen quite often).

[Racc2 24]

Hmm, this is the hardest topic I had to respond to in a while. 🤔

To start off, I think the underlying idea/intention is something most of us can agree to if we put our personal gains aside for a moment. Inflation and eco instability has become a serious problem in spk and has players of all activities and financial classes annoyed and should be addressed. 

I'm going to provide my idea's on both causes separately, and this will link in with your suggestions at several points. (In my opinion it's best for this discussion to really resolve around the root issue's and not one specific proposal to fix it). This in the hope this topic actually leads to some form of solution, though this is a very sensitive topic as it's linked to both players wealth as well as donations. 

   eco instability:   
This has plagued spk since the day I joined and in my opinion is caused by the exponentially unequal spread of wealth and the use of items sheerly for their value not their intended use (especially super rares like fort, viri, etc).
For a stable eco you need atleast a small but still decently sized number of players that posses a lot of wealth in amounts roughly similar to one another, this causes a system where, if they act independently their actions will self stabilize as if one is selling or buying items, flowing cash, etc, the others will respond and things will usually average out in the large scale.

On spk this is a clear problem, mainly due to gamble combined with general greed and gamble in some cases completely dis-insensitivesing people from playing the game and the autokeep industry which is a valid cash sink for gamblers but makes it so they can ez rebuild and as such never really get cleaned. 
Okay that might have been more my personal issues with gamble, as for the impact on eco stability, usually you have 1 or 2 eco's that have 8x more than the next richest group, who control up to 80+% of rares and probably 70+% of all wealth is controlled by this dis-proportionally small group of ppl. To make matters worse, they often have no real idea of the value small items have and the value of large items is just whatever they please as they are the only supplier. If they start to get cleaned they often dump items in super cheap, once a new eco rises prices usually intially go through the roof as he/she becomes aware of their new gained powers.

Essentially this is also why in most real life economies there are rules to prevent one company controlling a very large portion of the market, mergers between large companies, etc. as this gives them a monopoly like we see on spk, and while your yosh doubling in price over a week is annoying, your medicine doing that tempts to be a tad worse  

Input on solution:
As mentioned above, in real life systems are in place to prevent this so it's clearly an issue and perhaps we can learn from their solutions. (Though granted that is most of the time in the form of government regulation or similar.)

I think here a gamble/stake tax would majorly help as it will just stop items from flowing from one eco to the next freely without any resistance or energy lost. 
As for the implementation there are many ways of doing this, and none of them easy to waterproof as far as I can tell, I do think the implementation should consider following things:

• It should work for both gamble/stake
• It should not only work for cash stakes/gambles but in some way also for items, though if it really needs to sink items is an entirely different discussion (though one worth having imo)
• It should be proportionate to the amount gambled/staked, just a fixed amount per gamble or similar will dis-proportionally impact small players and will motivate ppl to gamble even bigger making the problem even worse..
• It should be well balanced so it's an effective sink, but not completely unreasonable (I know this is open to interpretation but I think once implemented the system can be finetuned in steps based on how well the sink works)

With these in mind I'm not a big fan of your suggestion of gamblers just paying to be able to stake, yes this will cause some small gamblers to bitch a bit more but being broke never stopped them from gambling before so, and for big players and big items this will do very little, for eco kinda gambles this will mean pay 10b to gamble over 10 000t back and forth in items so this will in my opinion miss it's goal as a sink and just hinder some small time gamblers.

I think a better solution could be a % of the gambled pot being taxed as this scales with the pots, is a very effective sink for big time gambles but the specifics will have to be properly thought out.
The easiest yet a tad simplistic perhaps implementation would be a gamble pouch where ppl put cash into, and if they win 5% of the total gambled value is taken out of their pouch. This way the loser doesn't pay (which seems fair), winner still wins 45% of his original stake, which also seems decent, I mean 95b from 50b is pretty nice. Downside is this only sinks cash not items and you'dd have to have a item price list somewhere for item value calculation. Though such a pricelist that is monthly or so updated is not a bad thing to have in general and could be automated by averaging or extrapolating from tp sales.

You could think of easier to implement things like a random item from the gamble being deleted with a 2% chance or so (and a mechanism to avoid dumping rocktails xD). But I think if everyone puts some idea's here we can come to something that works for almost everyone and more importantly accomplishes the goal  

___Inflation:___

So essentially the devaluation of cash causing all items to rise in price. This also partly originates from gamble/stake scene with ppl having large cash stacks and then dropping it in eco by buying out some super rares or things like that. In addition we've seen the addition of cash drops left and right on spk, especially with caskets added do dailies which also contributes to the inflation imo, more cash is flowing into the game than ever.
Small note, gamblers buying out super rares like viri fairy, as well as still obtainable rares like inf stone, skot, inf pendant etc also causes high end items to over-inflate belong just cash inflation. (Making it harder and harder for non gamble/stakers to actually get end game items to use as opposed to just store in bank)

Input on solution:

Here a gamble tax in some for can do wonders imo. 
As for the idea of a tp tax, I'm afraid this will not hit the right group and will be ineffective, as small trades will still go through tp and new ppl will still buy from tp so it will hurt them the most but big game hunters and high end items will just get a convention: list it in tp for 100b more than u want for it, and ppl can pm u if they have cash and then you can just trade.

I think it's important for a tax or sink to aim where the problem is, and not do to much collateral damage especially not to new players.

I will personally always want to see a big difference between wealth gained by hard work and wealth gained by going to gamble for 30minutes and getting lucky from a 5b starting point.
So if inflation is to be tackled I propose to do it proactively by revising drop tables and ways items flow into the game, as well as providing targeted item sinks that appeal to the right category while not giving them disproportionately big advantages.

So that's my 2 pennies, I hope this topic causes some change, even if it's not the changes I suggested above, I merely hope to inspire a constructive discussion  
Racc2 out

Edited November 15, 2019 by Racc2

[Hooke V2 51]

+1 Gamble

-1 Trading Post , unless you wanna see yell flooded with messages like : SELLING 20 BLOODMONEY 15M EACH PM ME NOW CHEAPEST IN GAME.

[Uranium v2 12]

The main issue I've noticed over the years is the sheer influx of cash and 'high-valued' items.

As previously stated everything now goes for 'gamble' value instead of the use of the item.

+1 to both server is dying more and more.

[Kellatha 629]

4 hours ago, Uranium v2 said:

The main issue I've noticed over the years is the sheer influx of cash and 'high-valued' items.

As previously stated everything now goes for 'gamble' value instead of the use of the item.

+1 to both server is dying more and more.

You went from speaking facts to talking out of your ass. Literal harvard grade education to dropping out of highschool intelligence, 100-0 real quick.

SPK is probably near it's all time high in terms of player base. The economy has helped HEAPS in gaining players since donating is now the easiest way to make a buck in game. Donations are at their all time highest and it'll only climb higher than now if cash isn't sunk out of the game. Also, the fact ragging was illegalized everywhere will almost promote server growth and add fuel to the rollercoaster-economy epidemic. Most people seem to say:

• Blood perk tree is a cash sink!
• Bloodcore tokens are a cash sink!
• Epic pet fusing is a cash sink!
• Blood diamond fusing is a cash sink!

While a little true, this isn't doing anything at all to sink cash out of the game since a player buying items and spending cash at the TP/trades is still keeping money inside of the economy. In fact, it makes things worse as someone who is hoarding a big amount of cash bags goes on a spending spree and adds even more cash to the economy.

Example: Dixie Normous has 20T cash but spent 10T cash on twisted bows to sink into the bloodcore system for elderblood, blood KBD, grand comp cape, yell titles, etc.

While Dixie has sunk massive amounts of twisted bows which is momentarily helpful to the economy, supply lowers heavily for that item and makes demand scuffle to find a balance since merchers take every opportunity flip items. You can easily see it when a momentary gambler who won big buys out the TP aka buys all divines for 50-75b and then lists them all at 100b which is very common these days. As a result the cash is added into the eco which inflates prices even more. While 1T cash, 50T cash, 500T cash spent all at once doesn't have an IMMEDIATE impact on the economy, over time it will and any player on SPK is no stranger to prices changing over night, let alone smaller intervals like 2-6 hours prices can heavily change.

I'm sure I don't need to speak Economics 101 that much as this isn't rocket science. Some people who commented here know how things work and use that knowledge in their favor while others don't know what they are talking about.

Probably the only pure cash sink I can think of is the WoGW when it takes 10B cash. It's effectively sinking pure cash and giving a cosmetic reward which has no negative impact on the economy whatsoever. Things that work like the WoGW is a perfect example of a cash sink, through and through.

It also doesn't help that the server adds SO MANY cash bags itself into the server via easy exploitation. I'll list a few to get your noodle thinking, but I wont list them all as this is purely self gain and 100% negative impact on the economy.

• Making cursed orbs and suiciding with them for easy GP
  • You could argue that this is 50-50 but this is effectively adding cash bags where cash bags should not be added
• Multiple VIP+ accounts
  • Worsening when using grand ring(i)'s on each account
  • Cash flows vary but easily in the billions or trillions long term

I'll stop the list there as there are some more I can think of but should not mention as most people do not do this as they are not aware of the possible GP exploits. These are in no way bug abusing, but can be done legally(illegaly speeds this up).

As for the TP/Gamble tax i'm about 50-50 on agreeing with this. I'll note some some tweaks that should be rolled out along with taxing.

• Gamble/Duel tax a flat 2% rate
• TP tax at a 5% rate but will lower based on donator rank
  • Non donator: 5%
  • Normal donator: 4.5%
  • Super donator: 4%
  • Elite donator: 3.5%
  • V.I.P. donator: 3%
  • Legendary donator: 2.5%
  • Sponsor donator: 2%
  • Mythic donator: 1.5%

This will balance out the playing field based on donator rank and entice future donations. Appeals to the owners by making them money, helps the economy via cash sink, and promotes activity for getting bonds.

[Loviathan 6]

1 hour ago, Kellatha said:

 

• Gamble/Duel tax a flat 2% rate
• TP tax at a 5% rate but will lower based on donator rank
  • Non donator: 5%
  • Normal donator: 4.5%
  • Super donator: 4%
  • Elite donator: 3.5%
  • V.I.P. donator: 3%
  • Legendary donator: 2.5%
  • Sponsor donator: 2%
  • Mythic donator: 1.5%

 

This just denies the ability of using merching alts...

[D RY 7]

-1 imo. merching would be ruined. This is a private server, there are many other ways to remove cash from the game. It has been an awfully long time since we have seen an ethereal contest, new players don't even know it exists

[Bsouth 68]

On 11/15/2019 at 4:15 PM, metal justin said:

With that being said I do believe that the TP tax could be lowered to 1% once things stabilize a bit more and a chunk of cash has left the game.

I definitely agree with you. As long it gets stabilized

[Bsouth 68]

On 11/15/2019 at 4:25 PM, Loviathan said:

Fat -1 for the trading post taxes, don't punish those who have worked so long to figure out how to merch effectively. The fact that gamblers (who obtain most of the economy) are able to controll prices with the result of them going up or down in a day is enough reason to stop this.

It wouldn’t affect anyone negatively. During the process bags are being removed from the market will items fall in prices. This suggestion is not an advantage or disadvantage for anyone, this suggestion is about changing the path and stabilize the economy on spawnpk.

[Bsouth 68]

 

I can tell you put some time and effort into this reply and I really appreciate it!

On 11/15/2019 at 5:06 PM, Racc2 said:

though this is a very sensitive topic as it's linked to both players wealth as well as donations. 

We all have different opinions and what most players are missing out on is how it would affect themselves. Some believe that taxes is making it worse for themselves meanwhile it’s actually the opposite. Like if tones of bags are getting into the market without anywhere else to go, what should it be spent if not on items? This means that players are being able to pay more and all the prices will keep rising.

 

On 11/15/2019 at 5:06 PM, Racc2 said:

So essentially the devaluation of cash causing all items to rise in price. This also partly originates from gamble/stake scene with ppl having large cash stacks and then dropping it in eco by buying out some super rares or things like that. In addition we've seen the addition of cash drops left and right on spk, especially with caskets added do dailies which also contributes to the inflation imo, more cash is flowing into the game than ever.
Small note, gamblers buying out super rares like viri fairy, as well as still obtainable rares like inf stone, skot, inf pendant etc also causes high end items to over-inflate belong just cash inflation. (Making it harder and harder for non gamble/stakers to actually get end game items to use as opposed to just store in bank)

I agree with you, a lot of new content that has been added recently is about more bags. Npcs drops more bags than before, casket gives bags, raids gives bags and so on. Instead we need content that removes bags and make the bag overflow more stable. Maybe add a new useful item into magic chest that you pay bags for each attempt?

[Bsouth 68]

17 hours ago, Kellatha said:

Donations are at their all time highest and it'll only climb higher than now if cash isn't sunk out of the game.

You are right but the value of what you get is still the same. All other items have risen in price as well so it doesn't matter.

17 hours ago, Kellatha said:

While a little true, this isn't doing anything at all to sink cash out of the game since a player buying items and spending cash at the TP/trades is still keeping money inside of the economy. In fact, it makes things worse as someone who is hoarding a big amount of cash bags goes on a spending spree and adds even more cash to the economy.

It made me very happy to read this. There are a lot of players out there that don’t understand this.

17 hours ago, Kellatha said:

Some people who commented here know how things work and use that knowledge in their favor while others don't know what they are talking about.

This statement caught my eye a little extra and made me wonder, how would anyone take advantage of this?

17 hours ago, Kellatha said:

Multiple VIP+ accounts

This might not be popular but it could be a good thing to add a limit of how many accounts you are allowed to pvm on. Similar rules to the amount of accounts you are allowed to use in the wilderness.

17 hours ago, Kellatha said:

TP tax at a 5% rate but will lower based on donator rank

• Non donator: 5%
• Normal donator: 4.5%
• Super donator: 4%
• Elite donator: 3.5%
• V.I.P. donator: 3%
• Legendary donator: 2.5%
• Sponsor donator: 2%
• Mythic donator: 1.5%

 

Huge +1 on the suggestion but maybe not the % number.

[Bsouth 68]

1 hour ago, D RY said:

-1 imo. merching would be ruined.

I disagree with you. If less bags are used to by items, everything in general will end up to fall down into a stable price. Merchers are only going to make 2,5% less meanwhile they are making a favour for the community. 

1 hour ago, D RY said:

there are many other ways to remove cash from the game. It has been an awfully long time since we have seen an ethereal contest, new players don't even know it exists

What else came to my mind was adding content that makes you spend bags. What do you suggest?

[Loviathan 6]

2 hours ago, Bsouth said:

What else came to my mind was adding content that makes you spend bags. What do you suggest?

Being able to spend pure bags for something like well of goodwill or to buy boots/swift gloves/goliath gloves for pure bags instead of blood money. That's an example on how to make more cash sinks.

[Bsouth 68]

19 minutes ago, Loviathan said:

Being able to spend pure bags for something like well of goodwill or to buy boots/swift gloves/goliath gloves for pure bags instead of blood money. That's an example on how to make more cash sinks.

+1 on that suggestion. Maybe add both taxes and the ability to use bags as attempts in the magic chest. Though if your suggestion would be added is my suggestion to change the tax % from time to time depending on the economy. 

Reason why is to keep the market stable at all periods no matter what happens

[vygandas 0]

Items started rising when raids got buff alot cash comes from there why we can to replace cash with raid tickets?

What we can do with raid tickets?

New raid ticket shop it should be all raid items to purchase for a  certain ammount tickets and we got grand crest arm who is best in slot for melee you should put in that shop best in slot range arrmor 

[Racc2 24]

Lots of interesting idea's and arguments, I love it  

Also very nice to see that in general people seem to agree on the idea of a gamble tax somewhere in the 1-5% range but most of the discussion is on the tp tax and even alternative sinks.
So just wanted to point out it's already quite nice to see a common opinion on the gamble tax solution  

As for the tp tax and alternative cash sinks, I already mentioned my opinion on the tp tax and how it's likely that big items will be traded hence bypassing that system so I won't go into this to much anymore. Though to be clear, I respect other people's opinions and we won't know what the response would be unless we see an actual implementation of it of course  

As for alternative cash sinks, some excellent idea's (imo) have already been suggested like: [I paraphrase/generalize some ideas, please correct me if you do not agree this is in the spirit you said, as I don't want to misquote obvs]

• Well of Good Will - Kellatha: I 100% agree, this is the only real pure (cash) sink in game, it takes cash/items out of the game, it rewards everyone and the contributor gets a cosmetic item and as such no autokeep-easy rb type of item for gamblers. Any similar systems or improvement to the existing WoGW will have my full support +1.
• I'm not against adding cash bags to enchant chest, but I do think that chest is not the right way to sink in general as imo this just appeals to gambler to get all autokeeps before they get cleaned and even when cleaned still have essentially 5+t of gear to pk with and stuff (ye ye repaircost but that's only if u die  ). If anything I'dd personally love to see a lot of autokeeps become tradable (similar to ferro-gloves), this would allow non-gamblers to also see value in trying a second or third attempt just to see if they can turn a profit on them
• buying some things in pure cash - Loviathan: could have a positive impact if done right, have to be careful though cause it will hard-link the value of those items to cash
• Changing things based on changes in economy - BSouth: while you only mention changing the tax-rates, which is a solid and important suggestion imo, I would love to see this extended to inflation adjustments to most pure-cash rewards. f.e. the value of mythic kits has devaluated by approx a factor 3 since they are linked to pure cash, same could be said from monsters that drop cash, pk loots in cash etc. (This ofcourse nuanced by the large influx of cash through some of these channels causing inflation but that's a separate issue imo)
• Alternative currencies - vygandas: this is a sensitive system that if done correctly could help stabilize things though if done wrong could ruin certain activities so a well balanced and thought out eco plan would be adviced imo, if so then +1  
  Though perhaps a nuance: "Items started rising when raids got buff alot cash comes from", while yes, raids buff was a contributing factor, adding bag drops, chests that gave a fair bit of cash, orbs, etc were also among the (major) contributors 

Maybe one idea, I'm not going to claim it's mine but that I collected from talking to several people:

Replace some of the cash drops, rewards, sell-able items with ways to obtain non-trade-able items.
I am not talking a chest where you can just buy items, dump them into it and get your autokeep OP item as I think Kellatha already illustrated the nuance of calling this a sink anyway.

I'm talking swapping some trade-able/sellable rewards that by nature of being sellable anyone can obtain with rewards that actually reflect accomplishments, that actually require you to grind, to go on KS, to put time into it. I think this way you can justify these items to have some nice effects/bonusses as:

• they would be harder to obtain
• they cannot be traded/sold so no much danger for eco
• with ppl quiting and new ppl starting these types of items will not really be flooded
• you can even just make them destroy on death for pk beneficial items to reduce the autokeep OP pk'ing complaints a little

There are tons of way of implementing this for all different activities, for example but not limited to:

• things like pk'ing ring with vig(i) effect which you have a small chance of getting after a kill but is destroyed upon death
• from raids you could get raid-shards which you can use for a variety of things from armor/wep upgrades to raid pet upgrades, to idk new raid pets, unlocking certain features?
• monsters could drop some neat items and get their drop table reduced a little, idk think of vetion sword with some nice spec, kbd wings that give dmg against dragons (and copy dr from inf cape), brutal gloves, 

Just some examples but I hope you see what I mean, essentially items that can only be obtained by putting some time into it, that are still valuable/give the owner a clear advantage and will allow you to balance eco a little while maintaining the rewardingness of the game. (Since a lot of cash stays in game as ppl quit after being cleaned, this could also give a way of more items/rewards leaving the game and keeping their amounts balanced.)

Racc2 out

[Big Pee pee 12]

Tbh I don’t think eco is that fucked. Maybe for top tier items but for newcomers it’s actually quite good to be able to make money.

I vote no to the gamble tax, but yes to a TP tax because merchers are part of the reason that prices are inflated.

Having a coin shop with more items would help but maybe for niche shit which doesn’t exist yet. It’s hard because you’re trying to create a sink for the people with trills without shafting newer players.

 

I think that there just isn’t enough content left to make a difference. In that, people who have crazy sums of money already have everything they’d need so there’s no reason why they’d use a sink.